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    Talkbass---The Final Insult!

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    mikearnopol
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    Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:06 pm

    WOW---an interesting development
    I've been in contact with a Canadian Electronics firm called Sonic Farm. They make the best sounding bass di/preamp I've ever heard. So--I've been bugging them and offering suggestions for them to come out with a full bass amp. I had no commercial involvement----I just wanted to own one of their amps. I sent them a digital amp module to try. And they want to do it. The best sounding amp in the market IMO. It'll have a killin'eq section, 1200 watts into 4 ohms and weigh about 10#.
    I've been talking up their preamp on Talkbass---which I could do as I was not commercially involved.(meaning that I would receive no profit). Well---about 5 days ago the Sonic Farm guys got in touch and said that they really wanted to do the amp but were wondering if they could just do the front panel and attached preamp section and were wondering if I wanted to take on building that into a case with the power amp section. I've got a local buddy who is a great tech and wants to do it. So as of 5 days ago I have become commercially involved. So I went on the Sonic Farm thread on Talkbass (which I started) and stated that I was now going to be commercially involved so I would have to curb my enthusiasm. (as a commercial user you obviously can't be singing the praises of your stuff) So, since then I've only been responding to questions asked without touting the virtues of the upcoming amp. All within their rules.
    Well---I went on Talkbass today to find out that I've been banned from the site. No message, no warning. I went to the contact and help desk icons to ask what it was about. It wouldn't even let me contact them.
    It's too bad---a few speaker manufacturers have been trying to get me off Talkbass---I've found this out from some reputable sources---they've been losing sales and have complained about every post I make, saying that they're self promotion. One of these manufacturers (that I know is complaining) told someone (who after trying said manufacturer's flagship $2000 speaker and opted to return it and purchased two of my cabs) that my speakers were "science fiction and didn't work". But he is a big buddy of some of the administrators there.
    I've been really tired of the petty politics on Talkbass but in spite of that have been an ardent supporter and have defended them at all turns. To be honest---I'm kindof glad. It could be such a wonderful place for bassists to exchange information but is more of a social club where politics take precedence.
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    Passinwind

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Passinwind on Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:53 am

    Hey Mike,

    Bad juju man. Did they give you life without parole?
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    ric426

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by ric426 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:05 am

    Mike,
    Maybe your surly and intimidating nature scares them.  Laughing
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:13 am

    The funny (and most dicklike thing) is that they gave no reason and when I click on the help tab the response is "please contact us if you're interested in paid advertising".
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    spiritbass

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by spiritbass on Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:32 am

    Petty tyranny is always ugly. This smells of small-scale crony capitalism. It's never a winning proposition when business involves government to solidify the position of their products in the market. It's a recipe for stultification, halting innovation and improvements.

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by JGR on Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:01 am

    I had some stuff deleted and a warning from the mods yesterday as well.  I would guess it's other small companies doing the complaining as the big ones don't care/aren't engaged anyway.   Mike and I have talked about this many times - it makes sense for the small guys to stick together and support each other with the goal to eat the bigger guys lunch (one bite at a time).  Waging war against each other is pretty shortsighted - all it does in the end is make sure the big guys are still there peddling their tired crap.  If you're a little guy and you can't compete on the merits of your product, get the f*** out and leave it to the rest of us who can. Smile
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:37 am

    What's interesting is that in the threads---people that questioned why I was banned or expressed their support for me had their posts deleted! It's kindof like living in North Korea or Iran---you better not question the government!
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by ric426 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:57 am

    mikearnopol wrote:when I click on the help tab the response is "please contact us if you're interested in paid advertising".

    See? If you just cough up some money you can join their club and snipe at other people's new ideas. If not, take your new-fangled ideas somewhere else. And here we are.
    Obviously your enthusiasm for new ideas, whether your own or from other upstarts (like those Big E clowns  clown ), was making the established dinosaurs uncomfortable.  Spank It!

    It's really disappointing because TalkBass can be such a good resource in other ways. I guess it's still a good place to sell off old technology.
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:27 pm

    Duke LeJeaune started a thread in TB about how there should be transparency about such issues. They are almost always triggered by a complaint. Most of the time theses complaints are from competing companies. Like certain UK speaker manufacturers or California speaker/amp manufacturers (actually he couldn't get the amp happening)Duke though that it should be open in that people should at least know who is complaining.He thought that it should be in an open forum so that the TB members could see what was going on. Which would help stop the political alliances doing whatever they wanted to do unchecked.There is a CUP to insure that people don't use TB to unfairly promote their products.But their is no mechanism to prevent the people (who are buddies with the mods/admins) to exert their influence to hinder a competing manufacturer. Boy did that thread get shut down in a hurry!!!
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:35 pm

    I just received a message from the owner of Talkbass apologizing for the ban. He aid that is was a mistake by the administrator that did it.. I'm back on---but boy my heart isn't in it!
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by ric426 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:53 pm

    mikearnopol wrote: I just received a message from the owner of Talkbass apologizing for the ban. He aid that is was a mistake by the administrator that did it.. I'm back on---but boy my heart isn't in it!

    I'm glad someone finally came clean about it, but are they going to post anything about it on their forum? Quietly apologizing after the damage is done doesn't leave me feeling any better about Talkbass, especially after all the censorship of posts questioning the ban.
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    Passinwind

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Passinwind on Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:38 pm

    mikearnopol wrote:I'm back on---but boy my heart isn't in it!

    So why not just take a break for a week or a month? I find myself having to do that with anything and everything to do with computers sooner or later.

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    Leland Crooks
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Leland Crooks on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:01 am

    Stay off. Seriously. Your users will keep it alive.

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Bottomzone on Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:17 am

    WOW!!! Fear causes some people to do and say crazy things!!!

    With regard to your new cabinets being labeled as science fiction, or even pseudo-science by some, to quote Arthur C. Clarke, "Any sufficient advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Passinwind on Wed May 27, 2015 9:32 am

    Lookin' a bit bleak over there this morning. WTF
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Steve Regier on Fri May 29, 2015 1:06 pm

    I am continually amazed at all the effort that is spent tearing people down.


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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Passinwind on Fri May 29, 2015 3:02 pm

    Steve Regier wrote:I am continually amazed at all the effort that is spent tearing people down.

    And yet they allowed a guy who was obviously a commercial builder to post pics and clips of his new tube DI build-in-progress for months, even ignoring a pic of 15 finished units until I finally called out an admin guy on it, while registering my displeasure with Mike's treatment over there.

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by JGR on Fri May 29, 2015 3:48 pm

    Passinwind wrote:
    Steve Regier wrote:I am continually amazed at all the effort that is spent tearing people down.

    And yet they allowed a guy who was obviously a commercial builder to post pics and clips of his new tube DI build-in-progress for months, even ignoring a pic of 15 finished units until I finally called out an admin guy on it, while registering my displeasure with Mike's treatment over there.

    Yeah, that thread was pissing me off too considering the microscope some of us have been put under.

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by BuffaloBob on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:52 pm

    I frankly think that TalkBass needs to re-consider its policy regarding small individual builders and its strict application of the CUP to them.

    There should be greater leeway allowed for people like Mike, JGR and even Roger Baer versus large commercial brands like Fender, Mesa, etc.  Guys who are building for themselves and are trying to bootstrap themselves into the business should not be held to the same standards as large commercial suppliers.

    Once an individual builder has reaches a certain level of sales, employees, etc. then fine.  But until then, I just cannot see how these individuals, who are doing really cool things should be so limited in their participation.  

    I know the argument, that it's not fair to those paying for advertising.  Are you kidding me?  Are people like Mike and JGR and even Roger Baer really impacting these commercial suppliers that much?  The volumes are soooo low.  I think it's ridiculous.
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Steve Regier on Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:09 pm

    They have banned me as well! cheers
    I will let this hastily created message speak for itself:
    "Stephen Regier,

    Your message (Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia) contains inappropriate content and one of our staff (Thor) has given you a warning. Please review our forum rules. Here is a copy of the content you posted:

    You could just get the demo MAS-66 that Mike has available on his FB for a few $ more and be done with it. You know you'll always wonder...

    Warnings may carry point values, which may end up temporarily disabling your account if enough warnings are accumulated.

    Note that the posts you have recently made to this thread on behalf of you an your business partner, Mike A, are in direct violation of our CU policy. Given that Mike has no been banned for continuing CUP issues, we will not put up with a substitute to shill for him. If this does not stop we will remove the thread from public view.

    If you have any questions, please leave a ticket at our help desk for an administrator at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    The funny thing is that I'm not Mike's business partner, I was answering a question about what loudspeaker to get, I'm no one's shill, and I can't use the contact link to talk with and admin because I'm banned. What a bunch of ass clowns. 'sure glad I didn't send in my supporting membership renewal.


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    mikearnopol
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:23 pm

    The funny thing is that I hadn't talked to Steve and had no idea of what was happening. And we are not business partners. There was a guy in the threads going on and on about which MAS cab he should buy. No mention of any other cab manufacturers. If  someone asked me that on TB I would be totally within my rights to make a recommendation.Which is what Steve did. They banned him after his first warning. That's against THEIR policy. they did not give him the opportunity to respond.

    I got banned again for "self promotion". One thing that they quoted. A guy was asking about the 110 sub to couple with another MAS speaker. He said that he could uses some more "up to 300hz". I corrected him saying that the 110 was crossed over at 500hz so it actually gives a lot of support into the midrange. I didn't want people to think that it was just in the sub range. I was within my rights as a CU to clarify this  misconception. Also, the same guy said that he could bypass the crossover and use an amp with an electronic crossover. My comment wa that that would be "killin' ideal" Because I really like biamping. In a perfect world all of my speakers would be biamped with internal crossovers. David Wilson (head administrator) said that I was getting banned for that comment. He said that I can't say my speakers are "killin' ideal". Apparently he is challenged by understanding context in a sentence. It's obvious that my comment was relating to how using a separate amp and biamping is a preferred way to go. Nothing was insinuating that it was a comment on the quality of any speaker. I made mention in that post on how I had added handles to the MAS1200 for an easier schlep. This could have been construed as an unwarranted comment. In the Sonic Farm thread (where all of this broo haha was from) most of the guys in the discussion were also on the Big E thread. Tom Bowlus and others were asking about additional handles. Now what I should have done was put that comment  on the Big E thread and made sure to include the quote that it was referring to. I apologized to Herr Wilson and told him that it was indeed a response to a question, but I must admit that since it was the same guys on the SF thread ---and that they were talking about my speakers---that I just commented like I was on the Big E thread.

    A few moths back, Duke started a thread in the suggestion department that when a CU has a complaint lodged against him that it should be made public where the complaint was from. I was able to find out that every complaint against me was  initiated by a competitor. Duke thought (as I do) that this is unfair. A competitor can complain as often as he wants. This makes the mods hyper vigilant as far as watching every word. Virtually anything can be construed as "self promotion" if you stretch the rules far enough. I had a complaint (from a competitor) lodged against me for self-promotion. Now keep in mind that the Big E thread was very active---I had no need to bump it. I came down with pnuemonia and was out of comission for a few weeks. I made a post saying that I was bummed that I couldn't work but at least I could catch up on movies. I received a violation and subsequent suspension for "thread bumping"

    BTW---David Wilson shut down that thread that Duke had started in a few hours. Can't criticize the government!!

    While guys on TB were commenting on the unfairness of my treatment I would always take the high road and defend TB. I can't defend them any more.

    Banning Steve on his first warning (without any communication or the ability to ask a question), and making the incredibly insulting comment that I was using him as a "shill" (again---I wasn't even aware of the discussion---I can't even go on TB to check things) speaks to the pettiness and selective treatment on TB.

    As I said on Facebook, being a member of TB is a bit like being a citizen of North Korea.
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:28 pm

    Passinwind wrote:
    Steve Regier wrote:I am continually amazed at all the effort that is spent tearing people down.

    And yet they allowed a guy who was obviously a commercial builder to post pics and clips of his new tube DI build-in-progress for months, even ignoring a pic of 15 finished units until I finally called out an admin guy on it, while registering my displeasure with Mike's treatment over there.

    The funny thing is that I've never made any complaints about any posts by a competitor

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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by iualum on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:35 am

    mikearnopol wrote:The funny thing is that I hadn't talked to Steve and had no idea of what was happening. And we are not business partners. There was a guy in the threads going on and on about which MAS cab he should buy. No mention of any other cab manufacturers. If  someone asked me that on TB I would be totally within my rights to make a recommendation.Which is what Steve did. They banned him after his first warning. That's against THEIR policy. they did not give him the opportunity to respond.   ...

      ...   As I said on Facebook, being a member of TB is a bit like being a citizen of North Korea.

    Hi Mike, I'm the fella that was "going on & on" about which one (or more) of the MAS Soundworks cabs I should buy. Sorry if it seems to you like it's fodder for semi-derision.



    MAS cabs looked/look super to me, but I've never played or heard one in person. I'm fortunate enough to have sufficient wherewithal (thank the Good Lord Smile ) to even consider a MAS purchase (or possibly a couple purchases, & not unlikely, a couple more down the road a bit if I'm smitten by them after playing myself). But, unfortunately for me (& honestly, why should anyone else give even 1/2 a shyte lol! ? ), I'm not made outta bread. Sure wish I was, baby. So yeah, I was askin' as many questions as I could to determine a smart way to start out. Thought what better approach than to go straight to the MAS & TB forums & get it from the horse's mouth, as it were. Ya know? Somehow that seemed preferable to a shotgun approach, to me anyway. And I thank you, Steve, & everyone else who provided valuable info cheers .



    I'm also not crazy about the way a number of things get handled @ TB. And them banning both you & Steven (without recourse opportunity) was simply ridiculous. However, having said that (& truly believing it), isn't the Democratic People's Republic of Korea just a bit too hyperbolic?


    Cheers...Matt
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by mikearnopol on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:55 am

    Hey Matt

    No criticisms were intended from the comment. I prefer to have a lot of questions asked--a better chance to get a player with the right cabinet.I usually try to head a bunch of posts off at the pass by communicating by phone---I'm a pretty cranky typist.

    Oh---and I agree that my comment was a tad over the top. My point is that there is no democracy on TB. No discussions on any aspect of their policies. They routinely remove posts that question their policies. As in the case with Duke's thread in the suggestions threads. No discussions as to the merits of his suggestion. They just shut the thread down. And (in the case of banning Steve) they go against their own rules. To make a point. It's totally against their own rules to ban someone after their first offense. (and a questionable offense at that) They dictate the rules (which is their prerogative ) and tolerate no questioning of said rules. I know that it can't be anarchy there but it would be a better site if they could put arrogance aside and listen to suggestions and concerns of individuals that are just trying to make Talkbass a better site.
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: Talkbass---The Final Insult!

    Post by Steve Regier on Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:25 pm

    Well said, comrades.


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