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    MA 112 Essential

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    mikearnopol
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    MA 112 Essential

    Post by mikearnopol on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:29 pm

    Ok---I've been messing around with the 112's a lot. After playing through the 112 with the 18Sound---and no mids--it dawned on me. The mids are REALLY good with the 18Sound and it goes flat past 2500hz-- still pretty much info at 3k. In other words---it sounds to my ears ---better than any sans mid and tweeter cabinet.

    So--if that's within the parameters that you dig

    MA112 Essential (18sound woofer---no mids or tweets) $800
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by mikearnopol on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:17 pm

    oh---and it'll be upgradeable

    JGR
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by JGR on Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:15 pm

    That sounds like a great value Mike.
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by mikearnopol on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:15 pm

    Yeah---the mids are so nice on the 18sound that I realized that for at least half of my gigs I probably wouldn't notice the difference.

    Much better mids than a stand alone Kappalite LF. I even like it better than the 3012ho in terms of mids.

    professorx

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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by professorx on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:42 am

    Hmmm... so would the essential be the model you'd recommend for those of us who incorporate overdrive and fuzz as part of our regular tone? Or do the mid's and highs on the MAS version not produce the shrill highs when used with fuzz like most speaker do?
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by mikearnopol on Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:59 am

    I think that the highs on the MAS112 are much less shrill than most cabs with mids and tweeters I guess it's a matter of taste whether it's too shrill. It'll be much less shrill in the high end than most bass cabs with tweeters---they're bad tweeters, usually.

    A customer came over with an Epifani cab. We had the tweeter pulled down about 30%. It was still unlistenable to me.

    If the sound you're going for works best with conventional single speaker cabs (no mids or tweets) than the Essential would do it.

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    MarkA
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by MarkA on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:58 pm

    mikearnopol wrote:I think that the highs on the MAS112 are much less shrill than most cabs with mids and tweeters I guess it's a matter of taste whether it's too shrill. It'll be much less shrill in the high end than most bass cabs with tweeters---they're bad tweeters, usually.

    A customer came over with an Epifani cab. We had the tweeter pulled down about 30%. It was still unlistenable to me.

    If the sound you're going for works best with conventional single speaker cabs (no mids or tweets) than the Essential would do it.


    Ha!  Okay.  I'll use my first post on this forum to 'fess up that that was me.  Next time I expose you to an unlistenable tweeter, feel free to let me know!  Wink  I like highs, but I've been kind of allergic to tweeters.  I thought the tweeter on the Epifani was better than most, meaning that I could tolerate just a little of it (and feel that a little of it does add some useful information up top).  Compared to my little Markbass combo, it's sweet and open (off-topic, but they're a nice yin-yang if you stack them).  The MAS 45 next to it, though, was much nicer -- more open, more even through the midrange, more full sounding when playing harmonics, and sweet up top.  I don't know how those dome tweeters work in a busy mix, but they're sure nice to listen to solo.  I think my blood pressure dropped a couple of points when we played that cab.  The MAS 45 has a nicer bass response, too -- both more full and more articulate -- though I don't know exactly where its limits are compared to the bulkier Epi cab.  

    Back to the 112, I didn't realize you were planning an "essential" version, Mike.  How does the top end/mids compare with a nice, full-range (or as full-range as a single speaker gets) 12" or 15" cab?  I don't know where they roll-off, or what a roll-off at 3KHz sounds like.  I actually just sent you a note on a sort-of-related topic before finding this thread.


    Last edited by MarkA on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling, dude.)

    coolhandjjl

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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by coolhandjjl on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:31 pm

    The venerable JBL K140 rolled off at 2500, sort of what comes to most peoples minds when they think of the tone from those big vintage "woofer only" cabs.
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    Steve Berndt
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Berndt on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:45 pm

    Out of curiosity what configuration would be best for stacking an MA112 Essential under a MAS112?

    Both vertical, Essential horizontal and MAS112 vertical, or both horizontal?

    Maximum Manipulated Vortexitude desired of course.

    Cheers,

    Steve
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Regier on Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:25 pm

    You could use either configuration. However, if the MA-112 on the bottom of the stack is laid horizontally on the floor the transducer will become coupled to the ground plane. This will raise bass sensitivity which may or may not be desirable. Stacking a MAS-112 vertically on a vertical MA-112 could cause the MAS on top to get slightly thin in the bass region resulting ina more aggressive mid-range. This vertical configuration may also result in narrower dispursion but yeild more projection. The vertical MAS on a Horizontal MA would most likley yield the most balanced presentation if the floor space is available. I would be inclined to place them side by side in their native vertical orientation to start with the MAS on the same side as the player. Then experiment with placement from there as time allows.


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    Steve Berndt
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Berndt on Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:15 pm

    Nice.

    Thanks Steve.

    Side by side or horizontal will be my best options.
    I'll be running them with a rack mount integrated amp.
    Aesthetically that will prevent muffin top overhang.  Smile 

    Now what would happen with either a MAS112 + Ciare or a MAS112 Mo - Mids tossed into the configuration for a 2.67 ohm load. Or would 2 X MAS112 + 1 MA Essential be a better pairing?

    Cheers,
    Steve
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Regier on Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:20 pm

    The choice of loudspeakers in any combo will, of course, be determined by one's sonic goals and amplifier tolerances. In your example I think I would lay down a foundation of MA-112 Essential unit(s) in a horizontal configuration. Two should provide plenty of pants flap and punch especially with the bottom unit coupled to the ground plane. On top of them a MAS-112 with Mo-Mids and the tweeter (if you need some sparkle) would be something. As far as Ohm load goes I guess that depends on what your amp will tolerate. I think if I were going to put this type of rig together I would be inclined to build up the stack horizontally with two MA-112 Essential loudspeakers on the bottom and two MAS-112 Mo-Mids w/tweet on top. Power the stack on an Askly KLR power amp and share the rack with the pre-amp of my choice. That would be a modular backline to be reckoned with (They do call me Dr. PsYchoBoom!). If you ask Mike I'll bet he could make the Essentials powered so that you would only need to worry about sending power to the MAS unit (s) allowing more flexibility for all gigs great and small!

    Just a note about mixing MVW loudspeakers:
    There are two primary factors (other than amp loading) to take into consideration when using multiple MVW loudspeakers whether they are the same model or not.
    1. "Don't cross the streams." Keep all the loudspeakers in the same radiating plane. Do not toe them towards or away from each other.
    2. Do not position them in such a manner that gaps are present between the radiating (front) area of multiple loudspeakers. Keep the front edges as close to touching as possible. The exception here is top/sub configuration like the 45/110s combo with a pole mount for the 45.
    Violation of these rules will result in MVW punishment. There isn't enough EQ on the planet to smooth out the results.
    However, abide by these simple rules and one can mix and match MVW loudspeakers with astonishing results. They will couple to each other quite well and with a little experimentation some rather exciting presentations can be achieved.


    Last edited by Steve Regier on Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Regier on Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:45 pm

    In case no one is wondering I played one of these in the 70s in High School.
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    I traded a double 12" loudspeaker with an 8" mid in MTM configuration I had designed and built to a local music store owner for it. I thought I might take a break from concert piano. You know, play bass in a band and be cool. Maybe if I had an MAS rig I would have stuck with it.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled forum thread.


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    Steve Berndt
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Berndt on Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:14 pm

    And one thing leads to another.

    So with a horizontal MA Essential under a MAS112 should I consider asking for rubber feet on the side of the MAS112 as well?

    Or would the gap be too large.
    If it is that would rule out an Aural up Grammy between the cabs too.

    Just thinking out loud before my cab ships this week.

    Cheers,

    Steve
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: MA 112 Essential

    Post by Steve Regier on Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:24 pm

    Extra feet placed where you may need them couldn't hurt. An anti skid mat would do the job as well.

    The gap formed by the 1/2" or so rubber feet should not be an issue. Large (thick) feet or positioning the loudspeakers so that a gap larger than say 3/4" of an inch is formed will start to cause trouble.


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