Big E Loudspeakers

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    First 109 done!

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    mikearnopol
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    First 109 done!

    Post by mikearnopol on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:06 am

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    Very cool sounding cab
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    BigE
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by BigE on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:10 am

    I Really Like that look.
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by Steve Regier on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:09 am

    ... and here's the graph.
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    Very not bad for an MVW cabinet with an entry level price below $600.00 and sensitivity in the upper 90's


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    Steve Regier
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by Steve Regier on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:25 am

    Mike, how about giving us the final "as-built" statistics: dimensions, weight, etc? Maybe some anecdotal information about playability?


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    3rdcurve
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by 3rdcurve on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:03 pm

    So this one can be ran vertically with no issues? Looks like just what I need for practices where the 210 flex is WAY too much.
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by mikearnopol on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:56 pm

    Yes---that's why the cab is a bit deeper. There is more depth to the front center scoop area. This gives better integration in vertical orientation. I voiced the crossover based on a vertical orientation. It sounds great horizontally but is a bit more mid-forward. The vertical orientation is cool. Steve and Tom added a second tweeter so there is one firing right at you and the other fires downward and gives a bit more high end spread---you hear the highs in a less directional fashion.

    3rdcurve
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by 3rdcurve on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:03 pm

    That sounds great! What is the weight and power rating? I think that is the PERFECT size an orientation for use with a micro head. I may have to add another MAS cab to my arsenal!
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by mikearnopol on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:07 pm

    Not light---hence the lower price. I'm using 3/8 Baltic Birch which actually is superior in terms of sonics and strength. It's just a lot heavier. The 109 is right around 40#.

    Again--it goes about as loud as a 210 cab. 200 watts will drive it just fine---you could probably get away with 150. It'll take 400 watts--which surprised me.

    It's an 8 ohm cab but not really. Speaker manufacturers round impedance to the closest number. This speaker is closer to 6 ohms. Two of these would be fine with an amp rated for 4 ohms. Many 8 ohms speakers are actually lower and the amp manufacturers know this and build accordingly. The reason I'm bringing this up is that an amp that is 200 watts into 8 ohms would more likely supply 300 watts to this speaker.

    It's easy to drive.
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    ric426

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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by ric426 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:48 pm

    Woohoo! By this time tomorrow it should be rattling my windows and bothering the neighbors!  bounce
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    BigE
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by BigE on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:31 pm

    We are looking forward to your opinion of the new cab.
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    ric426

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    First impressions of the first MA109

    Post by ric426 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:35 pm

    For now I'm gonna cheat and copy what I just posted in the Big E thread on TalkBass:

    An MA109 landed on my doorstep today and of course I dropped everything so I could try it for a while until my wife dragged me away.

    I'm just gonna throw out my impressions as they come to mind:

    First, my existing rig is a Mesa Walkabout driving a Genz Benz Neox 112. Decent sound, but somehow lacking. I tend towards a more old school sound. I don't slap and I play fingerstyle most of the time. My basses are a passive mongrel P bass with D'Addario Chromes, a passive Warmoth Jazz bass with Nordstrand Big Splits and D'Addario Nickel round wounds, a Kubicki ExFactor with D'Addario Chromes running in passive mode, and a Pedulla ThunderBolt 5 with Bartolini electronics and D'Addario Nickel round wounds. I've got Aguilar OBP-3, Nordstrand 3 band and Bart 3 band preamps each mounted in outboard boxes with full bypass footswitches.
    Initially I'm playing in an average size bedroom.

    Before I tried the MA109 I played through the GB 112 for a while to set sort of a baseline for what I was accustomed to.

    After 45 minutes with the MA109, I have to say WOW! I hadn't heard any Big E cabs prior to this, so I wasn't sure what to expect.

    When I first connected the 109 and started playing I thought it sounded nice, but not spectacular. As I kept playing, trying different basses, preamps and playing around with EQ I started to like it more and more.

    The first thing I noticed was the low end clarity. As Mike said, "The 109 is warm and punchy with just enough tautness". A perfect description. The real eye opener came when I plugged in the Pedulla 5. The clarity on the B string was astounding! Actual pitch definition on the lowest notes!

    I can really hear the differences between basses and even the subtle differences between preamps. Granted, a lot of the subtleties will be buried in a mix, but the clarity still comes through.

    Each bass retains it's character all the way up the neck. Tone and volume are much more consistent anywhere on the neck.

    I can tell the low end is opening up more as the speaker breaks in. It sounds even better on an Auralex Gramma pad. Cuts down on the room resonances as you'd expect.

    I see what you mean about the Big E having a more immediate sound and less overhang on staccato notes.

    I think the Walkabout is just enough amp for the speaker, but in a louder situation I'd want more power to preserve the headroom. It's got me thinking about a suitable replacement.

    Two 109's would be awesome! I wonder if they'd sound better side by side vertical or stacked horizontal. Stacked vertically would be interesting, but a little strange too. You'd certainly be able to hear yourself.

    Granted my testing is limited, but I did notice that the sound was much more consistent anywhere I stood. The upward firing tweeter is nice if you're forced to stand close to the rig.

    With most speakers that have tweeter attenuators I've tended to run them no more than 1/3 up. With the GB I even ran it with the tweeter at max attenuation. I was a little concerned that the 109 didn't allow for that, but it's a total non-issue. I love the way the high end sounds. Totally seamless transition from low end to high end. I use a T-rex Bass Juice overdrive a little and it sounds better too.

    The sound responds to changes in right hand position and technique and EQ changes much more than with the GB 112.

    I'm looking forward to trying it in a band setting, though at this point, I can't say when that will be.

    As someone else noted, I'm using the bridge pickups more than I had been. Much less irritating honk than with other cabs and a wider range of usable tones.

    The form factor is great with a small amp. With the cab vertical it might be kinda weird with a big tube amp sitting on it, but at that point you'd want at least a couple of 109s. Wink 

    Mike's construction is flawless. I never thought to ask about a handle or feet or corners, but there they are. The size, weight and form factor, and the handle location, make for an easy carry.

    At $575 (or more for that matter), I don't know of another speaker than can touch the MA109. An excellent value. I haven't played through anything that has sounded as good. Any misgivings I might have had about buying something I'd never heard before, especially a new model with no reputation or feedback, have vanished. I'm totally pleased with the purchase. I think Mike and Big E have a real winner with this one.

    That's all I've got so far. I'm glad to answer any questions that I can, though my experience is limited at this point.

    My overall impression of the MA109?  bounce  bounce  bounce  bounce
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    mikearnopol
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by mikearnopol on Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:17 am

    Thanks so much!

    crud

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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by crud on Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:43 am

    Hey All,
    So how deep is it?
    and looking at the freq chart, is the zero supposed to represent 90 db?
    thanks

    mikegj

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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by mikegj on Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:11 pm

    I think about 15" deep.

    Zero means zero, graph is simply a graph of what the frequency response is at a given frequency.  

    Graph shows essentially flat (well within + or - 5db) from 18khz until under 50hz, then rolling off.  Nice smooth response curve.

    No particular power or volume level is indicated.

    crud wrote:Hey All,
    So how deep is it?
    and looking at the freq chart, is the zero supposed to represent 90 db?
    thanks

    coyoteboy
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by coyoteboy on Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:46 pm

    Seems this one is coming to me in a while, thanks to ric. Ill have a stable!

    Guess ill have to save for number 2 and make it a whiteout version and ill fab me a white grill. ;-)

    iualum

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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by iualum on Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:50 pm

    What drivers are in the 109?

    And how would two 109s compare with a single 4-ohm 112 for tone, SPL, Vd?

    And where does a MAS66 stand in comparison? Is it best to use a sub in conjunction with the 66 for bass, or can it stand alone well?

    Any response charts available anywhere for the 109 & 112 & 66?
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: First 109 done!

    Post by Steve Regier on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:57 pm

    The same 3" Faital mid-tweets are used throughout the entire product line.
    The MA-109 is offered as a single 10" entry level loudspeaker utilizing an Eminence BP102 woofer. It's response chart is on Mike's homepage and in its catalog entry. The MA-109 has a bit darker classic vibe when compared to the MAS-112 series more modern sound. Two MA-109s will have equivalent output two one 112. However, the MA-109 is the ONLY loudspeaker in the lineup with a full length MVW system providing uncompromising Vortexitude.
    The MAS-66 is a full on stand alone unit. It does not need a subwoofer. It's extension is lower than the MAS-110S subwoofer. The MAS-66 is a smooth HiFi sounding loudspeaker with huge output. Folks are adding the MAS-110S subwoofer for extra punch as its response in the 80 to 110 region has a few db bump.
    There are some response graphs floating around but judging an MAS loudspeaker by its graph tells only a fraction of the story of its sound. In some cases the graph can be misleading when compared to the perceived sonic experience. For this reason we concentrate more effort on hearing an MVW loudspeakers in person (of which we are trying to do a better job).

    The response graph of the MA-109 is on the first page of this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


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