Big E Loudspeakers

A Forum to discuss Big E Loudspeakers and the MVW technology


    Illinois GTG

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    rich4349
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    Illinois GTG

    Post by rich4349 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:45 pm

    Since you guys are located here in IL, are they much less scheduled, and more 'just call us up"? Is there a Chicago location to hear them, too?
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Steve Regier on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:11 pm

    We really enjoy having folks over to the shop in Central Illinois for a demo. Just contact us and we'll do all we can to get your ears in front of a Big E. Mike Arnopol Soundworks is in the Chicago area and he enjoys having guests visit and try out bass cabinets as well. There is a lot of skepticism and outright rude denial of the possibility of the potential of our technology. That is why we welcome everyone to come and experience BigEs first hand. Charts and graphs are useful tools but ultimately it's the ears of the listener that count.
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    Doug Hart
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Doug Hart on Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:14 am

    Steve Regier wrote: Charts and graphs are useful tools but ultimately it's the ears of the listener that count.
    I know some people who need to get that message.
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    rich4349
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    sound in person

    Post by rich4349 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:42 pm

    Let me preface the following comment with: I am not an audiophile, nor an engineer, just a guy with a bit of a scientific bent, open to new concepts and developments, but (hopefully) with a cautious approach.

    The thing I was afraid of when I heard the RaichE was that I might be being lured back toward a more aggressive sound, one that MIGHT(!) have higher harmonics coloring / adding impact to the sound. I am not saying that that is what they do, just that I realize that <I> don't know enough about sound to be sure I know what what exactly it is I'm hearing. Next time I'd like to see some test tones run through both the sub and the mains, individually, and check out what the RTA shows. I don't know what it might show, but I'm curious none the less.
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    Doug Hart
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Doug Hart on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:58 pm

    rich4349 wrote:
    The thing I was afraid of when I heard the RaichE was that I might be being lured back toward a more aggressive sound, one that MIGHT(!) have higher harmonics coloring / adding impact to the sound.

    I hear ya man. I confess that I had the exact same thoughts/concerns.
    Those concerns quickly went away. Very Happy

    tartan

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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by tartan on Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:55 am

    Doug Hart wrote:
    rich4349 wrote:
    The thing I was afraid of when I heard the RaichE was that I might be being lured back toward a more aggressive sound, one that MIGHT(!) have higher harmonics coloring / adding impact to the sound.

    I hear ya man. I confess that I had the exact same thoughts/concerns.
    Those concerns quickly went away. Very Happy

    Same here. I have become such of fan of the pure tone created by the folded horn designs (BFM), and all the talk of why those designs sound so clean vs direct radiating subs, that my first thought about the RaichE was that it is sure to have quite a bit of added harmonics. But I'm ready to be shown otherwise.
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    Steve Regier
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Steve Regier on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:31 pm

    I have been a fan of folded since my teen years. I came of age listening to Klipschhorns and worked with PA horns with national touring acts in the 70s and 80s. I am looking at a BFM David in my living room right now. Horns will always have a place in my heart. The BigE subs were born out of the desire to have cabinets that are not slaves to horn rules. BigEs do produce some harmonics. Not all harmonics are bad. BigEs produce 1,3,5 harmonics like a tube amp. (We did have one that produced a 6th but that was resolved). The natural 1,3,5 is pleasing to the ear and reinforces the fundamental to the listener. The other BigE characteristic is presentation and impact. This is not a factor of harmonics as much as inertia. A horn has a moment of inertia while the air mass is excited. This causes a rounding of the note envelope. The is not a harmonic but it is a color to the sound. The horn can also filter harmonics in the source causing a color from the suppressed harmonic. The BigE has a lower moment of inertia and will react almost instantly. This results in a more energetic audio presentation.

    I am not diss'n horns here by any means nor do we have a magic bullet. I would submit that the BigE is more user friendly and very pleasing to the listener. Whether or not a BigE is for you? Come on down a listen to some.
    bounce
    We really enjoy having people over.
    BTW if you have a gig and want to try BigEs we'll bring a rig to you, provided we can get there. The only issue is that you will have to put up with BigE and Dr.PsYchoBoom all day affraid Ask Leland what he thinks about that.


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    tartan

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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by tartan on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:31 pm

    I just pulled up an IR I recorded last week of a T39/3012LF in 1/4 space, and find no measurable harmonics (at least in REW). The OT12/3012HO/fully-melded, OTOH, shows f2 throughout the passband. Can you give us an idea of what you're seeing for your PA tops?
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    rich4349
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    reviews

    Post by rich4349 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:15 pm

    Thought I'd start a new post for folks who have actually heard them in person and care to review them.

    I heard them in the guys' shop, and was quite impressed. So many positives about them. (LC46 for mains, and RaichE 18 sub. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.)

    1. Clarity. Listened to them at high (for me, anyway) levels, for about 2 hours, with no ear fatigue. (Did have a bit of numbness afterward, but any SPL like that over time will do that.)

    2. Smoothness. Not OVERLY clear, ie sharp, etc. Gave a nice full sound, did not sound like any frequencies were 'missing' as other (ahem) designs have offered. Surprising bass response for mains, for once I felt like I could go subless without missing out on TOO much. It's hard to quantify this without being purely subjective, but they just sounded GOOD. I can't imagine how good the 5.25" ones sound!

    3. Power. I can't imagine how large of a hall a pair of these could supply sound for. I'd like to try 'em out in a BIG room/ full gymnasium.

    4. Revelation. This has to be a plus, although depending on your music sources, it can reveal bad things as well as good things. It would depend on how well you know your music, and how well you like "surprises"! For example: I played the Blue Man Group/ Venus Hum song "I Feel Love" (my go-to show ender song) at near war volume, and discovered that the whole song is recorded with her singing live, mixed on top of a "perfect" recording of her in the studio. On most speakers this sounds like "harmonizing", but the LC46s made it sound like a half assed trick of a studio engineer. It did sound interesting, but sorta detracted from the usual impact this song has. It was distracting. Think you know your music? Play it through some Big E gear and find out!

    Overall I think these things were amazing, and hope to get some eventually. (Interested in trading for a 67 Karmann Ghia? Runs great!) I wish you guys the best with this venture.
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    Doug Hart
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Doug Hart on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:40 pm

    rich4349 wrote:4. Revelation. This has to be a plus, although depending on your music sources, it can reveal bad things as well as good things. It would depend on how well you know your music, and how well you like "surprises"! For example: I played the Blue Man Group/ Venus Hum song "I Feel Love" (my go-to show ender song) at near war volume, and discovered that the whole song is recorded with her singing live, mixed on top of a "perfect" recording of her in the studio. On most speakers this sounds like "harmonizing", but the LC46s made it sound like a half assed trick of a studio engineer. It did sound interesting, but sorta detracted from the usual impact this song has. It was distracting. Think you know your music? Play it through some Big E gear and find out!
    We've seen this time and time again. Listening to all the favorite tunes. Songs that you "think" you know every little detail.
    Still finding things in the recordings we didn't know were there.
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    rich4349
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by rich4349 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:31 pm

    So where would one go to hear a side by side comparison of some mine25s and lc46s?
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    Leland Crooks
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Leland Crooks on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 pm

    Parsons KS. Very Happy
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    Doug Hart
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    Re: Illinois GTG

    Post by Doug Hart on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:29 am

    Leland Crooks wrote:Parsons KS. Very Happy
    That is... if you can find Leland beneath all of the sawdust and paperwork. lol!

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